Music?

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Music?

Postby Argitoth » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:31 am

1. What format will the music be in or what format is desired? Computerized midi or high quality orchestral music rendered to mp3 desired?

2. Where in the game will music be used?

3. Will battle music be cued when needed?

4. What kind of music is desired? Is there a game that demonstrates this kind of music?
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Re: Music?

Postby MedicineStorm » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:08 pm

1. What format will the music be in or what format is desired? Computerized midi or high quality orchestral music rendered to mp3 desired?
Midi is such a great technology. Robust, compact, and widely compatable. However, it does have some consistency issues depending on the player's system and audio card, so we may end up sticking with rendered ogg vorbis. Mp3 is certainly a good idea in the development stages, but we will probably end up just converting it to .ogg for licensing and compatability reasons. @Whiligo: Is this correct? Shoot me down if I'm wrong here.
. Where in the game will music be used?
Pretty much everywhere. The only reason we wouldn't have music in some part of the game is because we either don't have enough music to fill the game or we feel silence has more of a dramatic impact in that particular portion of the game.
. Will battle music be cued when needed?
We are still discussing if and how battle music will be cued. So far it looks like we will only que battle music for bosses or story-significant sequences. We felt enemies would be incountered so often that it would interefere with the ambience to cue battle music whenever the player approached a monster.

. What kind of music is desired? Is there a game that demonstrates this kind of music?
Make a list of emotions, from simple to complex, then think of the kind of music that would portray each of those emotions. We need them all. Chrono Trigger or any of the Final Fantasy games are good examples of the music we (or maybe just me) like.

Whiligo may have some better input on these questions, but I am hoping many of the other Developers and Creators respond as well.
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Re: Music?

Postby Argitoth » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:12 am

Thanks for your detailed response! For question 4, I was wondering what kind of instrumentation you think the game should have. Since Utumno will have many types of lands and environments, it may need many genres of music from celtic-influenced orchestra to horror ambience. I wouldn't think any sort of synthy sounds would work; I would think to focus more on organic sound effects and acoustic instruments.

On the other hand, when I look at this $2 I naturally hear the music of an old console game because of the 2d graphics. The challenge is to create new-age music that fits with an old-age look... or maybe that's just a concept I need to get rid of.
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Re: Music?

Postby Whiligo » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:51 pm

Hi there, Sorry it took me so long to respond to you. I’ll try to answer your questions as best I can.

First question:

Midi will not work for this game for a couple of reasons.

I don’t feel that general midi sounds (the default ones that come with your operating system) are capable of producing the kind of quality that we are looking for.

Secondly, I don’t think it is worth our time to create a custom midi type environment for this game. While this is what they have done for all sorts of games from the original Zelda to Final Fantasy VII, it was done in those cases because disk space was at an extreme premium.
In the NES (Nintendo Entertainment System) days it was a big deal to add even kilobytes to a game. We don’t have this problem so it is easier for us to just render it.

Now for the second part of your question. For the purposes of showing what you have done, I would say, mp3 is fine. If we decide to use something you have done in the game, it will have to be submitted to someone (most likely me) in a lossless format. Preferably it will be the windows standard .WAV at CD quality (16bit 44,100Hz). I will handle the mastering and compression into ogg vorbis format from there.

Medicine storm already answered most of these but I’ll answer them again for some redundant goodness.

Question 2:

Game music will be used in most portions of the game.

Most areas will have general background music. For example, a particular grassland would have its own music, or a dungeon area would have its own music. This is in order to set the mood of a particular area.

Music will also be cued in significant battles in order to heighten the mood.
Also, music will be cued for special sequences of dialogue and events that contain emotional content that needs to be expressed.

In general there will be music playing for the majority of the game. This will enable us to use the effect of silence much more powerfully when we need to (awkward moments, sad emptiness times, creepy silence etc).

Question 3:

Partly answered above, Yes battle music will be cued, but only when a significant battle (bosses, minibosses, story driven battle scenes). Also I was thinking about a near death alert that is actually music instead of just annoying beeping but this may end up just being annoying too.

Question 4:

Music Type? This is not exactly rigid but here is what the idea is. Primarily orchestral. Personally, my influences vary pretty widely, but the idea is to use the music to make this game as cinematic as possible.

If someone thinks its strange for the music to be high quality rather than retro 8bit then so be it. I think we want to go beyond limiting ourselves to a retro sound. because then, instead of evoking a creepy dungeon feel, we end up evoking a retro 80’s video game dungeon feel, which I think would take away from the game.

So, basically, High quality orchestral music. Wide ranging from sad to energetic. adding tasteful electronics in to add energy and punch when it suits.

If you are looking for examples look at the Final Fantasy series. They are a great example of cutting edge scores for video games. Granted final fantasy one is really really old, and 8 bit, but it has some good things in there. By the time you get to Final fantasy 12 you will see that the scores rival multimillion dollar Hollywood productions. Another thing you will see is that they have almost always had a primarily orchestral backdrop, with some progressive rock, industrial, etc. thrown in there. I know that initially our little project is not going to rival Final Fantasy 12 or the like, but I would like the music to try.

So I have a question for you. I am assuming you write music. What do you use to produce it? Do you use a sequencer? Which one?
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Re: Music?

Postby Argitoth » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:41 pm

I use Reaper 3 as my sequencer. I used to use Cubase 4 and before that, Reason 3.

Here are two recent pieces I wouldn't mind contributing/editing for the Utumno project.

http://www.elanhickler.com/misc/Wind%20and%20Naal.mp3
http://www.elanhickler.com/misc/Liberation%201.mp3
(more on the way)

I use Kontakt, Wallander, Vienna Symphonic Library, and I have noteworthy sample libraries. I also own a D penny whistle, duduk, kalimba, a C bamboo flute, and a native american whistle which I can play well enough to add it in some of my compositions, even if just for some flutey shreiks or other fx.

I love to create ethnic-sounding music and mixing it with modern orchestral. I have a lot of unused melodies from unfinished projects that would be great for Utumno.

Lastly, I love game music from games like Oblivion IV: Elder Scrolls and Neverwinter Nights.
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Re: Music?

Postby Whiligo » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:50 am

Awesome. I was afraid you were going to say, " I use GarageBand exclusively" when I get the chance i'll take a listen to what you have.
I only just recently upgradedto Vienna symphonic special edition. How do you like reaper, and why don't you use version 7? Isn't it a free upgrade?

Anyway, I'll take a listen to your stuff.
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Re: Music?

Postby Whiligo » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:13 am

Those are really good! Hopefully we come up on a point where we start requesting music cues soon. So far the music portion of the game has been rather Blind. The first playable demo was just released and the storyline is now being shaped. We should have some cue requests soon.

How do you feel about collaborations, should the opportunity arise?
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Re: Music?

Postby Argitoth » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:51 am

I would love to collaborate, it would be a learning experience for me.

ow do you like reaper, and why don't you use version 7? Isn't it a free upgrade?

Heheh, Reaper is only up to v3. I absolutely love it. There were so many annoyances with Cubase that I don't have to deal with anymore, in addition to some things being easier. By the way, what host do you use?
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Re: Music?

Postby Whiligo » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:38 pm

I use FL Studio Actually. I find it really versatile, and I like the free upgrades. It has an awesome piano roll.

I for some reason mistook the scythe as a seven so I thought it was reaper seven. woops.

I was trying to like Cubase AI, but I always end up going back to FL Studio. On the other hand, FL Studio's Video and Time signature support is kind of limited, but those can be worked around in most cases.

I have been a little out of music for a while, but ill pm you a link to a couple of tracks that were made for this game. the Dryad's Passage one was never finished but it will give you a feel.
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Re: Music?

Postby MedicineStorm » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:47 pm

I like the Wind and Naal song. Its very easy to see a caravan or desert oasis town while listening to it. I don't usually go for asynchronous stuff, but Liberation would really add some atmosphere.

I am very interested to see what more you have "on the way"
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