Project Utumno forum

Quests involving riddles suffer from the problem outlined above because all that the quest requires is an answer, and that answer is the same every time. The quest could require token quest items be gathered along with the clues, right? The player would have to go through all the clue gathering parts even if they knew the riddle's answer. ... ... ... Meh! That would work some times, but it might also just make the quest feel monotonous if the player feels like the game is forcing them through actions that aren't really necessary.

Well, what if the riddle solutions weren't always the same? What if each time you played through a game, the quests' answers were different than the time before? You might think you know the answer, but when you get to that last door that asks for the magical password, your response is rejected:HAT... is your favorite color?

CAVEAT: Even with my stance on walkthroughs (I'm against them, if you didn't know.) sometimes a player needs a way out when that one puzzle just doesn't mesh with their thought process. Don't get me wrong; I freaking love puzzles. I tore through Myst without slowing down, and I loved it. I start ripping through Riven with similar gusto, but suddenly I hit a wall. Try as I might, I just could NOT figure out that this stupid puddle of water:


is supposed to represent this symbol:



You're probably like "Seriously, dude? That seems pretty obvious..."
First of all, shut up! Secondly, I still have trouble seeing it to this day. I got all the other puzzles that stumped everyone else, but this one- just... aaggh! The point is, sometimes a puzzle just doesn't jive with a player. If there was no $2 for me, I would have had to stop playing the game. That isn't fun, but what is the alternative? There is no way to progress any further without that symbol... that freaking symbol!... Therefore, I think PRQs should give the player a way out.

One way to do this is make PRQs optional. If the player gets stuck on it and just can't seem to put the pieces together, that's ok. They can walk away from it. Since it is an optional side quest, abandoning it doesn't prevent the player from moving on to other quests or progressing with the game's story. Another way out is to have an alternate approach available; If you, the player, can't figure out the vault tumbler thing in the quest example above, you have the option of coercing the corrupt mayor to open the vault at knife-point . You get the treasure map, but now the mayor knows what you look like so every time you come near his town, he orders the guards to attack you.

...Or perhaps you find some crazy one-legged prospector that knows where the treasure is hidden, but he'll only show you the dig site if he gets to keep half the treasure. You don't need the map or the vault code, but you don't get as much loot out of the deal.

With just a few tweaks to some minor details of a puzzle, we can preserve the puzzle's integrity and enhance the game's replay value! Quest Pedestrians don't get to gloat, but those that are genuinely stumped can have an escape route. All it takes on the developer's part is a minimal amount of extra effort to tweak little details of each quest.

What you think, adventure fans? Comments? Questions? This plan is open for hole-poking, so poke away. I plan on demonstrating PRQs extensively in the upcoming interactivity demo. WOOHOO!

I think this is a good idea. However, I think that the more auto-generated stuff that we have in the game, the more risk we take on regarding heading towards lame-o town. We just need to be careful to have the right balance. Diablo II, for example does the whole random thing with the map without the player actually noticing until they play for a second time. If we can implement this kind of gaming without it impacting the player in a negative way, at the same time as making fresh-ish gameplay for each player, then that is where we want to be.

I am also a fan of mini-games. I feel that these do exactly what you are talking about and since they are a measure of skill, they are not as monotonous and are slightly different every time. Yeah, if you are good at the game, then it will be easy, but it also might be pretty fun still. I am not saying all minigames, but maybe a mix of them along with the ideas you speak of such as dynamic riddles and self modifying side quests. Or even have the minigames as part of the dynamic sidequests.

I think that with some integration of these things we can successfully take some of the monotony out of repeat gameplay, as well as deter people from doing things like googling: "password for Bjonks cave troll"

Also, that Riven clue is bogus.

Firstly I must say. Excellence. Great topic. I'm pretty sure our minds just exploded

So I was thinking:

1. For random quests and some special item quests we could make the findable item lock or unlock when their record shows the game engine completed or uncompleted tasks. Which would mean the player has one shot at it then it's gone. ie The player decided to dig every block of the yard because they knew it was there but they never got the map. Text bubble appears stating "Someone seems to have already dug a hole here" You could make that to where they can go back and unlock it but it can also be fun to be told no sometimes. Maybe they can find the item from someone later after hearing who to ask for it but the guy gives them a lesser item and they don't know it's lesser till they talk to their real friend David.

2.There could be a reward/badge system for evidence of a walkthroughs being read.You get marked a cheater or cheater points/marks for guessing one of the possible but unused answers. Then they still get a lesser item and are able to move on. The player doesn't get to know about it till they talk to a friend. Maybe cheater is too harsh perhaps they could be Skipped Points and everyone can see but the cheater. Someone who has the lazy game personality probably wouldn't care what it looked like but might try a harder go at it with restarted game later. Also if your message relaying the answer to a riddle/puzzle to someone appears in the chat it gets detected and gives the player Spoiler points (Make those red so that people know to not invite them if they hate spoilers). Then you could give the players that meticulously did it all special titles or the right to create their own epic title for their badge that all the other players get to see. After seeing how effective the nice points were on league of legends I'm a firm believer in positive reinforcement. Seems like fewer people want to be a jerk because people can see their good deeds badge and or go look at their record.

3.

4. Multiplayer idea. The chapters in the game could be used like different chat rooms where the players are randomly selected and directed to that server(unless they're in a group). People in that part of the game are directed to that chapter's chat room/server/map. That would spread them out and control the ambiance. So real people would be walking around like the towns people in Chrono Trigger. Each chapter could have its own limit if you only wanted a certain number of people which is what I meant by controlling the ambiance of the scene. ie there could be parts when the player is alone with the computer or say it's supposed to be a desolate desert so there are only one or two real strangers/players on there to talk to(places where you even get separated from your friends that were in your group) or say you want a small town so there are eight players allowed or it's a big new yorkish town so there are 30 players walking around making things look like some ridiculous bizarre and they have to weave through to find the game avatars. Where's Waldo by the way? Then you could have a special thing where players can go back to any chapter they want if they've completed the game with no skipped points. This would also give your game real prophets or psychics played by real people as they'll have to speak mysteriously if they don't want spoiler points which just one point will kick them out of the chapter. Perhaps if players go back they have an avatar that looks like a hobo or an old person to other people. For all I know it's COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and could never work but it's just an idea I had.

Love the idea of a player being forever harassed by guards in a town because the player chose assault and robbery rather than charisma with the Mayer. And the guards drop super crap items.

color=#0000FF]...[/color] I think that the more auto-generated stuff that we have in the game, the more risk we take on regarding heading towards lame-o town.

dit: Looks like I posted in the wrong thread. I was talking about #3 of viewtopic.php?p=2004#p2004